One of our favorite (and busy) content-creating queens, Laganja Estranja, has taken us on tour with her, pleased our ears with some fierce music, including “Hawt” and “Daily Basis,” and set the Drag Race runway on fire as a lip-sync assassin. Her ongoing web series Muse Me takes us behind the scenes as Laganja and photographer Robert Hayman document the artistic collaboration between photographer and muse.
On the series, Robert and Laganja collaborate on looks that look luxe but often cost very little to put together. Previous themes have included feathers, crystals, and plastic. The pair also shoots guerilla style around Los Angeles and creates unforgettable images. The series takes you through the entire process, from concept to wardrobe construction and styling to the finished products—all of which are worthy of an art gallery.
It's always great to chat with Laganja, and this interview is no different. Read on as Laganja and Robert discuss the origins of the series, some of their favorite shoots, and what’s next for the muse and her talented collaborator.
How did you come up with the idea to do Muse Me?
Robert: Well, we shoot all the time. Jay is a muse of mine. I really enjoy shooting her. As a dancer, she's a great subject. And so, for personal work of mine, I would say, Jay, let's do something and we would shoot a lot. And so, I just decided after watching a photographer that I really respect named Nick Knight, who has a show that's similar where he features models. I looked at that show and I'm like, we should do that.
Laganja: What's interesting about that show is that the photographer is asking the model to talk about what they see behind the lens. We're so used to seeing what the model looks like from the front, right? But we never get to reverse that and see what the model is looking at and what the model is going through. I think that was another element that we really wanted to highlight in the series is sort of flipping the script and showing the audience what all goes into creating that final image that you see and hopefully double tap.
Robert: A lot of people love our images and they have no idea how they were made. And I always thought they'd be blown away if they knew how we're doing this because we're doing this virtually with like no money at all. And we're creating it all ourselves – as you can see if you watch the show. And so, I think that that appeals to people in that way that you can see behind the scenes and watch me make the clothes from the idea, to shooting the clothes, and then you see the final images at the end.
Robert we all know about Laganja, but what is your background?
Robert: I started when I was 16 years old. I painted a lot and I would always paint women. I was very inspired by artists like Patrick Nagel, Mel Odom. So, I would paint women. And then before I became a gay man, I was open to women. I had a girlfriend and asked me do her makeup. And I'm like, I don't know how to do your makeup. And she's like, just do with what you do with the paints on the canvases and just do it on my face. So, I did. And then we had a packet of Polaroids, 10 pictures. And I took 10 pictures, but they sucked – except for the 10th one, the last picture. We both were like, oh my God, that's so good. So, we started shooting and shooting.
I took thousands of pictures of my girlfriend. She was my first muse. And then people started asking me how much I charged, which I never even imagined getting paid for it and then it became my job and my career and my life.
When you do an episode, what's the creative process like? How do you come up with a concept?
Robert: Well, I have an idea in my head. You're asking me, how do I get that idea? Artists are inspired by a hummingbird flying across and they go, ooh, that color of green and then the green and the wings. And then maybe I can turn that into blah, blah, blah. That's how ideas come, you know, or you're inspired by other artists. I'm often very inspired by other photographers. As you can see in throughout the three seasons, you see me paying homage to many different artists – both painters and a lot of photographers. And so sometimes it's a shot I've already seen in an ad campaign in 1986 that I have in my head and I want to reproduce, not copy, but kind of go in that direction. Inspiration can come in a zillion different ways. So, it's really hard to answer that question.
Laganja: But sometimes it comes from a certain wig that I have or gloves that I have or a costume that I've just gotten. I think a lot of times you take that inspiration from other places and then you combine it with what we have and that's sort of what creates the magic.
Between the two of you, do you have a favorite episode?
Robert: In the first episode we did something very unusual – and it was this very intricate thing. I didn't know if it would work. And then it worked so beautifully, and I was so pleased. So, that's my second favorite. My favorite is going to be released a week from tomorrow.
There's a certain shot in particular…we rented a room at the Mondrian hotel, which is this beautiful hotel in West Hollywood. It's very modern and funky and no matter what room you get, there's many photo opportunities in the room. I happened to be able to procure a male model who was very famous in the nineties, Tony Ward. He dated Madonna. He was the star of her “Justify My Love” video and was in her “Cherish” video. I've wanted to photograph this man for a very long time and then I got my chance.
I set up the camera and taped it down so it wouldn't move because tripods will shake. I don't like using tripods. And then I would position him all throughout the room in different accessories and then I did the same thing with Laganja. Then I combined them all in a montage, so it looks like one picture. And there's, so there's like many Laganjas and many Tonys. That's my favorite picture. That picture I just did is my favorite shot we've ever done. I just love it.
Laganja: Well, my favorite episode I think has to be from this season when we went to Vasquez Rocks, just because it was so crazy. I was in six-inch pumps, climbing up a mountain. Then the next shot, he's putting feathers in my hair and we see this random person's stagecoach outside their house and we stopped and we got to shoot there and it was just so crazy and over the top with my looks and the whole atmosphere. I think that for me really sticks out in my mind.
And then if I had to say my favorite shots, I honestly think it's the shot that he got of me and my iconic All Stars season six outfit out in front of Caesar's Palace. That was also a really fun episode because we were again, doing it guerrilla style, which is something we do often where we shoot in public without a permit. So, it was a little bit scary, but I just think that image…you know, so many people have shot me and have photographed me in that outfit. I love everyone's interpretation, but I felt Robert’s just was really elevated in a way that no other photographer was able to capture.
I felt like it's just an image that I think will live on for a really long time. I'm getting emotional. I just think it's really special because that was such a big moment in my career, so to have it captured in a way that's not just on a white backdrop, but that is interesting and exciting and artistic and has this amazing story behind it – and, of course, a video to go with it I think is really special.
Is there anything that you haven't done yet that you still want to? Do you have a wish list?
Robert: Yeah, totally. I mean, listen, I've had many muses in my life, literally I've had, I'd say seven or eight models that I have photographed continuously, but never have I shot as many different concepts as Laganja.
Laganja: We think we've done over a hundred photo shoots easily. We don't think there's any photographer that's ever shot a drag model as much as the two of us have worked together.
Robert: We definitely plan on putting a book together in the future.
Laganja: Yes. In fact, everyone this season is like, where's the book?
Robert: In fact, just an hour ago, I had someone reach out through Instagram wanting a print. I sell a lot of prints. My pictures – luckily and thank God – have been starting to be collected by people and it's really great. And what's cool about when someone buys one of my pictures from Muse Me is that there it is on the wall and if one of their guests say, oh, I love that shot, they can say well, look, you want to watch how it was made? Because there's an episode geared around that picture. You can watch it being made, which is kind of cool.
Is there still a photo that you have fantasized about taking?
Robert: I would love to shoot Laganja on top of the Eiffel Tower. It would only take a trip to Paris and, you know, we have places to stay when we have friends that we could stay with. I mean, these things are possible.
Laganja: We definitely want to travel more. That's something that we haven't really gotten to do. Most of our shots – well, all of our shots, except for Vegas that I can think of, have been shot in California because we don't have the budget to travel. It's all self-produced. I've self-produced this entire season. We did all of the episodes for $2,500. Each episode depends. Some episodes are free. Some episodes are $200. Some episodes are $500. It just kind of depends.
Robert: The 500 ones are very rare.
Laganja: Well, that was the Mondrian because we had to pay for the room.
Robert: Most magazines, if they were to be creating these shots would spend $50,000 at least, literally, and there's a gigantic team of people. There's a makeup artist, there's a stylist, there's five assistants, there's all these people, whereas our shoots are very intimate. It's generally three to four people tops. And, like we've said, it's bare budget, just do it yourself. And I think that's been inspiring a lot of creatives out there. In fact, we've been told I've been taking pictures now because Muse Me and I see what you do. It's really cool to know that we've inspired a bunch of people.
Laganja: But, we would like a budget and that's the thing we would like to do is with the budget is travel or go to more exotic locations. It's not an issue for us to come up with new ideas. That's something we do. We had a bunch, even for this season, that we didn't get to do like shooting at the Getty, we wanted to do Getty and gowns, different gowns at the Getty Villa or at the original Getty Museum. There are definitely a lot of things that, like I said, when and if season four happens, we have plenty of ideas. That's never an issue.
You've done so much so little, budget-wise. You’ve created such beautiful images.
Laganja: I think that's what I find so inspiring about Robert too, is that he really has a way of taking…for example, when Robert and I did our very first shoot – which is not documented on Muse Me, unfortunately – he took plastic forks and took off the edges of the forks and put them on my fingernails to create extensions of fingernails.
He has this ability to look at something that we see every day and to use it in an innovative way. And I think that that is one of the reasons why he's so unique as a creative. You don't see that often, you know, most people are used to big budgets and getting these custom claws, but he will make it out of whatever he has at his fingertips.
Lajanga, has there ever been something that Robert asked you to do that you're like, no, that's just not something that I would not do, or you just trust him completely with your image?
Laganja: Not yet! No, I always trust him. I mean, there's definitely stuff where I'm like, do I have to? Are you sure you really want to do that? The thing that comes to mind, which I believe “Daddy” was a Muse Me special, right?
Robert: Yeah.
Laganja: In “Daddy”, my music video, which Robert directed, we did 13 looks. One of the looks was in a pool of pink milk. It was shot late at night when it was freezing cold. That one was pretty tough. I'm not gonna lie. But even more so, it was tough because it was a video. It wasn't just a picture that I had to pose for. It was like a full-on section of the music video that I had to get through. So that was pretty rough. But ultimately, I'm a daredevil. I want to go for the shot. I do trust him completely and I know that he wouldn't steer me in a direction that isn't going to create something that is iconic.
Robert: The best art is created when people are a little fearless. I hate to say this because it might be a very arrogant comparison, but I don't care. The relationship that Steven Meisel had with Linda Evangelista is very similar to our relationship. Linda would do anything for Steven because she knew he was going to take a cool picture. And it's the same here. Jay will do anything. And I generally never ask her to do anything that I wouldn't do myself.
Laganja: Well, climb a mountain in stilettos. I don't think we're going to say anything else.
Robert: You know, I mean, I didn't have to, but if you had said, I'll do it if you do it, I would have done it. I mean, I have a couple of health problems right now that would prevent me from climbing that mountain. But realistically, I'm never going to ask her to actually really put herself in danger…unless the picture was worth it (laughs)!
You alluded to putting out a book. Would you ever want to consider doing a gallery show and taking these pictures on the road so that everyone can enjoy them?
Robert: Of course, I dream of this. In fact, not only have we thought about it, but we know what we do. I can see it in my head. I want 30 iPads in two rows, 15 on each row. In front of the iPads are two to three blow ups from the episode and I want the episode on loop on the iPad, so people will be able to pick up the headphones, listen and watch those pictures being made and there'll be 30 of them. It would be very impressive.
Laganja: And something that Robert always does too, when he exhibits his work as an installation art piece…we actually did a performance art piece. We did one last year at The Artist Tree here in West Hollywood, which is a local dispensary and a cannabis lounge. On the top floor Robert had a gallery of all of his images and to celebrate that, we did a live art installation piece where he pulled people up from the audience to get in glam and be a part of the moment. It was so cool and I think it It's just a little taste of what is to come.
What is next for both of you?
Laganja: Well, I'm still working on my music. I'm still trying to get this dang album out. But right now, I'm really focused on my transition. I'm having surgery on September 7th. This will be my first gender affirming surgery with Dr. Rosenberg here in Beverly Hills. And I'm actually going to be documenting the process. I'm working on a documentary called Honoring Her. So that'll be kind of following me throughout the surgery and everything that comes before and after, as well as featuring my story that kind of leads up to that.
And I'm also working on a book called Honoring Him, which is all about my childhood and, and how I sort of grew up in Texas and what led to this decision of mine to come out as trans about three years ago. So those are my two main focuses right now. And then I'm looking at going on tour in November called the Body Reveals tour, of course, to celebrate the surgery and everything that I will have, you know, gone through the months of September and October.
Robert: I am working on an art installation piece that I've been working on for a few years now. It's going to be the largest Holocaust related art installation that's ever been done – especially from someone who is non-Jewish. Basically, it's five rooms. It's an immersive art installation experience and we'll probably be premiering it in New York. And we're definitely, like you said, working on a book for sure.
Check out Muse Me on YouTube.
Follow Laganja on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.
Get the latest news and merch at https://laganjaestranja.com and book her on Cameo.
Follow Robert on Instagram.
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